Laozi

whereas Taoism derives from the writings of Laozi who lived in China during the sixth century BC and worked as a sort of glorified librarian, or in the parlance of those times, keeper of sacred texts. Apparently he also knew a thing or two about astrology and divination. He wrote "The Infinite Way" in only three days somewhere towards the end of his life and only because he was urged to do so by a guard as he was leaving China in disgust over the way society was changing. Laozi is also credited with influencing the thinking of Confusius.

Quote:

The Infinite Way
1
The Way that can be described is not the absolute Way;
the name that can be given is not the absolute name.
Nameless it is the source of heaven and earth;
named it is the mother of all things.

Whoever is desireless, sees the essence of life.
Whoever desires, sees its manifestations.
These two are the same,
but what is produced has different names.
They both may be called the cosmic mystery:
from the cosmic to the mystical
is the door to the essence of all life.

2
When the people of the world all know beauty as beauty,
there arises the recognition of ugliness.
When they all know the good as good,
there arises the recognition of bad.

Therefore being and non-being produce each other;
difficult and easy complete each other;
long and short contrast each other;
high and low distinguish each other;
sound and voice harmonize with each other;
beginning and end follow each other.

Therefore the wise manage affairs without interfering
and teach beyond the words.

All things rise, and they do not turn away from them.
They give them life, but do not take possession of them.
They act, but do not rely on their own ability.
They accomplish, but claim no credit.
Because they claim no credit,
their accomplishment remains with them.

3
Do not exalt the worthy,
so that people will not compete.
Do not value rare treasure,
so that people will not steal.
Do not display objects of desire,
so that people's hearts will not be disturbed.

Therefore the wise lead by keeping
their hearts pure, their bellies full,
their ambitions weak, and their bones strong,
so that the people may be purified
of their thoughts and desires;
and the cunning ones will not interfere.
By acting without interfering, all may live in peace.

4
The Way is infinite; its use is never exhausted.
It is bottomless, like the fountainhead of all things.
It smoothes its roughness; it unties its tangles.
It softens its light; it calms its turmoil.
Deep and still, ever present.
I do not know its source.
It seems to have existed before the Lord.

5
Nature is not humane.
It treats all things like straw dogs.
The wise are not humane.
They regard people like straw dogs.

How the universe is like a bellows!
While empty, it is never exhausted.
The more it is worked, the more it produces.
Much talk brings exhaustion.
It is better to keep to the center.

6
The spirit of the valley never dies.
It is called the mystical female.
The door of the mystical female
is the root of heaven and earth.
It seems to be continuously within us.
Use it, and it will never be exhausted.

7
Heaven is eternal, and the earth is very old.
They can be eternal and long lasting,
because they do not exist for themselves,
and for this reason can long endure.

Therefore the wise put themselves last,
but find themselves foremost.
They exclude themselves,
and yet they always remain.
Is it not because they do not live for themselves
that they find themselves fulfilled?

8
The best are like water.
Water benefits all things and does not compete with them.
It flows to the lowest level that people disdain.
In this it comes near to the Way.

In their dwellings, they love the earth.
In their hearts, they love what is profound.
In their friendship, they love humanity.
In their words, they love sincerity.
In government, they love peace.
In business, they love ability.
In their actions, they love timeliness.
It is because they do not compete
that there is no resentment.

9
Stretch a bow to the very full,
and you will wish you had stopped in time.
Temper a sword-edge to its very sharpest,
and the edge will not last long.

When gold and jade fill your hall,
you will not be able to keep them safe.
To be proud with honor and wealth
is to cause one's own downfall.
Withdraw as soon as your work is done.
Such is heaven's way.

10
Can you embrace the One with your soul,
and never depart from the Way?
Can you concentrate your vital force
to achieve the gentleness of a new-born baby?
Can you cleanse and purify your mystic vision
until it is clear?
Can you love the people and govern the state
without interfering?
Can you play the role of the female
in opening and closing the doors of heaven?
Can you understand all and penetrate all
without using the mind?

To give birth and to nourish,
to give birth without taking possession,
to act without obligation,
to lead without dominating---
this is mystical power.

11
Thirty spokes are united around the hub of a wheel,
but the usefulness of the wheel
depends on the space where nothing exists.
Clay is molded into a vessel,
but the usefulness of the vessel
depends on the space where nothing exists.
Doors and windows are cut out of the walls of a house,
and the usefulness of the house
depends on the space where nothing exists.

Therefore take advantage of what exists,
and use what does not exist.

12
The five colors blind the eyes;
the five musical tones deafen the ears;
the five flavors dull the taste.
Racing and hunting madden the mind.
Precious goods keep their owners on guard.

Therefore the wise satisfy the inner self
rather than external senses.
They accept the one and reject the other.

13
Good fortune and misfortune cause apprehension.
Regard great trouble as you regard your self.

What is meant by
"Good fortune and misfortune cause apprehension?"
Those with good fortune are apprehensive of their gain.
Those with misfortune are apprehensive of their loss.

What is meant by
"Regard great trouble as you regard your self?"
Great trouble comes from being selfish.
Being selfless, what trouble is there?

Therefore those who value the world as themselves
may be entrusted to govern the world.
Those who love the world as themselves
may be entrusted to care for the world.

14
We look at it, and do not see it; it is invisible.
We listen to it, and do not hear it; it is inaudible.
We touch it, and do not feel it; it is intangible.
These three elude our inquiries, and hence merge into one.

Not by its rising, is it bright,
nor by its sinking, is it dark.
Infinite and eternal, it cannot be defined.
It returns to nothingness.
This is the form of the formless, being in non-being.
It is nebulous and elusive.

Meet it, and you do not see its beginning.
Follow it, and you do not see its end.
Stay with the ancient Way
in order to master what is present.
Knowing the primeval beginning is the essence of the Way.

15
The wise have ancient mystic wisdom
and profound understanding, too deep to comprehend.
Because they can not be comprehended,
they can only be described by analogy:
cautious, like crossing a stream in winter;
alert, like one aware of danger on all sides;
courteous, like a visiting guest;
self-effacing, like ice beginning to melt;
genuine, like a piece of uncarved wood;
open and receptive, like a valley;
freely mixing, like muddy water.

Who can make sense of a muddy world?
Let it be still, and it becomes clear.
Who can remain calm,
and through activity come back to life?
Those who embrace this Way do not over-extend themselves.
Because they do not over-extend themselves,
they do not wear out and are not replaced.

16
Empty yourself of everything.
Maintain a steady serenity.
All things take shape and become active,
but I see them return to their source,
like vegetation that grows and flourishes,
but returns to the root from which it springs.

Returning to the source is serenity;
it is to realize one's destiny.
To realize one's destiny is to know the eternal.
To know the eternal is to be enlightened.
Not to know the eternal
is to act blindly and court disaster.

Whoever knows the eternal is open to everything.
Whoever is open to everything is impartial.
To be impartial is to be universal.
To be universal is to be in accord with heaven.
To be in accord with heaven is to be in accord with the Way.
To be in accord with the Way is to be eternal
and to live free from harm even though the body dies.

17
The best leaders the people barely know.
The next best they love and praise.
The next they fear.
And the next they hate.

Those who lack trust will not be trusted.
Then they resort to promises.
But when they accomplish their task and complete their work,
the people say, "We did it ourselves."

18
When the great Way is forgotten,
the doctrines of humanity and morality arise.
When knowledge and cleverness appear,
there emerges great hypocrisy.
When family relationships are not in harmony,
filial piety and parental love are advocated.
When a country falls into chaos and disorder,
there is praise of loyal patriots.

19
Abandon wisdom and discard cleverness,
and people will benefit a hundredfold.
Abandon humanity and discard morality,
and people will rediscover love and duty.
Abandon skill and discard profit,
and there will be no thieves or robbers.
These three things relate to externals and are inadequate.

People need what they can depend on:
reveal simplicity; embrace the natural;
control selfishness; reduce desires.

20
Abandon memorizing, and vexations end.
How much difference is there between yes and no?
How much difference is there between good and evil?
Is what people fear really to be feared?
How very remote the actual occurrence!

The people of the world make merry
as though at a holiday feast or a spring carnival.
I alone am inactive and desireless,
like a new-born baby who cannot yet smile,
unattached, as though homeless.

The people of the world possess more than enough.
I alone seem to have lost all.
I must be a fool, so indiscriminate and nebulous.

Most people seem knowledgeable and bright.
I alone am simple and dull.

Most people see differences and are sharp.
I alone make no distinctions,
seeming aimless, drifting as the sea,
like the wind blowing about, seemingly without destination.

People of the world all have a purpose.
I alone seem impractical and out of place.
I am different from others,
and value drawing sustenance from the Mother.

21
All-embracing power proceeds only through the Way.
What is called the Way is elusive and intangible.
Intangible and elusive, yet within it are thought-images.
Elusive and intangible, yet within it are objects.
Deep and obscure, yet within it is the life-force.
The life-force is very real, and within it is certainty.

From the ancient times till now
its manifestations have never ceased,
by which we may see the beginning of all things.
How do I know that the beginnings of all things are so?
Through this certainty.

22
To yield is to preserve unity.
To bend is to become straight.
To empty oneself is to become full.
To wear oneself out is to be renewed.
To have little is to be content.
To have abundance is to be troubled.

Therefore the wise embrace the One
and become examples for the world.
They do not display themselves and are therefore illumined.
They do not justify themselves and are distinguished.
They do not make claims and are therefore given credit.
They do not seek glory and therefore are leaders.

Because they do not compete,
the world cannot compete with them.
Is not the ancient saying true,
"To yield is to preserve unity?"
for true wholeness comes from turning within.

23
Nature says few words.
A whirlwind does not last all morning,
nor does a rainstorm last a whole day.
What causes them? Nature.

If even Nature's utterances do not last long,
how much less should human beings'?

Those who follow the Way are one with the Way.
Those who follow power are one with power.
Those who abandon it are one with abandonment.

Those one with the Way are welcomed by the Way.
Those one with power are welcomed by power.
Those one with abandonment are welcomed by abandonment.
Those who lack trust will not be trusted.

24
Those who stand on tiptoe are not steady.
Those who strain their strides cannot long keep up the pace.
Those who display themselves do not illuminate.
Those who justify themselves are not distinguished.
Those who make claims are not given credit.
Those who seek glory are not leaders.
According to the Way these are like extra food and waste,
which all creatures detest.
Therefore followers of the Way avoid them.

25
There is something mysterious and whole
which existed before heaven and earth,
silent, formless, complete, and never changing.
Living eternally everywhere in perfection,
it is the mother of all things.

I do not know its name; I call it the Way.
If forced to define it, I shall call it supreme.
Supreme means absolute.
Absolute means extending everywhere.
Extending everywhere means returning to itself.

Thus the Way is supreme.
Heaven is supreme.
Earth is supreme.
And the person is supreme.

There are four supremes in the universe,
and the person is one of them.
The person reflects the earth.
The earth reflects heaven.
Heaven reflects the Way.
And the Way reflects its own nature.

26
Gravity is the foundation of levity.
Serenity masters hastiness.
Therefore the wise travel all day
without leaving their baggage.
In the midst of honor and glory
they remain leisurely and calm,

How can a leader of a great country
behave lightheartedly and frivolously?
In frivolity, the foundation is lost.
In hasty action, self-mastery is lost.

27
A good traveler leaves no trace.
A good speaker makes no slips.
A good accountant uses no devices.
A good door needs no bolts to remain shut.
A good fastener needs no rope to hold its bond.

Therefore the wise are good at helping people,
and consequently no one is rejected.
They are good at saving things,
and consequently nothing is wasted.
This is called using the Light.

Therefore the good teach the bad,
and the bad are lessons for the good.
Those who neither value the teacher nor care for the lesson
are greatly deluded, though they may be learned.
Such is the essential mystery.

28
Know the male and keep to the female.
Become the valley of the world.
Being the valley of the world is eternal power
and returning to the innocence of a baby.

Know the bright and keep to the obscure.
Become an example for the world.
Being an example for the world is eternal power
and returning to the infinite.

Know glory and keep to humility.
Become the valley of the world.
Being the valley of the world is eternal power
and returning to the natural.
Breaking up the natural makes instruments.
The wise use them and become leaders.
Therefore a leader does not break.

29
Those who take over the world and act upon it,
I notice, do not succeed.
The world is a sacred vessel, not to be tampered with.
Those who tamper with it, spoil it.
Those who seize it, lose it.

Some lead, and some follow.
Some blow hot, and some blow cold.
Some are strong, and some are weak.
Some are up, and some are down.
Therefore the wise avoid excess, extravagance, and pride.

30
Whoever advises a leader according to the Way
opposes conquest by force of arms.
The use of force tends to rebound.
Where armies march, thorns and brambles grow.
Whenever a great army is formed, scarcity and famine follow.

The skillful achieve their purposes and stop.
They dare not rely on force.
They achieve their purposes, but do not glory in them.
They achieve their purposes, but do not celebrate them.
They achieve their purposes, but do not take pride in them.
They achieve their purposes, but without violence.

Things reach their prime and then decline.
Violence is contrary to the Way.
Whatever is contrary to the Way will soon perish.

31
Weapons are tools of destruction hated by people.
Therefore followers of the Way never use them.
In peace leaders favor the creative left.
In war they favor the destructive right.

Weapons are tools of destruction,
not used by good leaders.
When their use cannot be avoided,
the best policy is calm restraint.

Even in victory there is no glory.
Those who celebrate victory delight in slaughter.
Those who delight in slaughter
will not be successful leaders.
Fortune is on the left;
Misfortune is on the right.
That is to regard it as a funeral.
The killing of many should be mourned with sorrow.
A victory should be celebrated with funeral ceremonies.

32
The Way is absolute and undefined.
Like natural uncarved wood in simplicity,
even though it is insignificant,
none in the world can overcome it.
If leaders would hold to it,
the whole world would serve them spontaneously.

Heaven and earth join, and gentle rain falls,
beyond the command of anyone, evenly upon all.
When civilization arose, names began.
With names, one should know when to stop.
Knowing when to stop, frees one from danger.
The Way in the world is like
rivers and streams flowing into the sea.

33
Those who know others are wise.
Those who know themselves are enlightened.
Those who overcome others require force.
Those who overcome themselves need strength.
Those who are content are wealthy.
Those who persevere have will power.
Those who do not lose their center endure.
Those who die but maintain their power live eternally.

34
The great Way flows everywhere, both left and right.
All things derive their life from it,
and it does not turn away from them.
It accomplishes its work, but does not take possession.
It provides for and nourishes everything,
but does not control them.

Always without desires, it may be considered small.
The destination of all things, yet claiming nothing,
it may be considered great.
Because it never claims greatness,
its greatness is achieved.

35
Hold to the great form, and all the world follows,
following without meeting harm,
in health, peace, and happiness.
Music and delicacies to eat induce travelers to stay.
But the Way is mild to the taste.
Looked at, it is invisible.
Listened to, it is inaudible.
Applied, it is inexhaustible.

36
In order to contract, it is necessary first to expand.
In order to weaken, it is necessary first to strengthen.
In order to reduce, it is necessary first to build up.
In order to receive, it is necessary first to give.
This is called the mystic Light.
The soft and gentle overcome the hard and strong.
As fish stay in the deep water,
so sharp weapons of the state should not be displayed.

37
The Way never interferes,
yet through it everything is done.
If leaders would follow the Way,
the world would be reformed of its own accord.
When reformed and desiring to act,
let them be restrained by what is simply natural.
Undefined simplicity is free of desires.
Being free of desires, it is serene;
and the world finds peace of its own accord.

38
Superior power does not emphasize its power,
and thus is powerful.
Inferior power never forgets its power,
and thus is powerless.
Superior power never interferes nor has an ulterior motive.
Inferior power interferes and has an ulterior motive.
Superior humanity takes action but has no ulterior motive.
Superior morality takes action and has an ulterior motive.
Superior custom takes action, and finding no response,
stretches out arms to force it on them.

Therefore when the Way is lost, power arises.
When power is lost, humanity arises.
When humanity is lost, morality arises.
When morality is lost, custom arises.
Now custom is a superficial expression
of loyalty and faithfulness, and the beginning of disorder.

Foreknowledge is the flowering of the Way
and the beginning of folly.
Therefore the mature dwell in the depth, not in the thin,
in the fruit and not in the flowering.
They reject one and accept the other.

39
The ancients attained oneness.
Heaven attained oneness and became clear.
Earth attained oneness and became stable.
Spirits attained oneness and became divine.
The valleys attained oneness and became fertile.
Creatures attained oneness and lived and grew.
Kings and nobles attained oneness and became leaders.
What made them so is oneness.

Without clarity, heaven would crack.
Without stability, the earth would quake.
Without divinity, spirits would dissipate.
Without fertility, the valleys would be barren.
Without life and growth, creatures would die off.
Without leadership, kings and nobles would fall.

Therefore humility is the basis for nobility,
and the low is the basis for the high.
Thus kings and nobles call themselves
orphans, lonely, and unworthy.
Do they not depend upon the common people for support?
Dismantle the parts of a chariot, and there is no chariot.
Rather than tinkle like jade, rumble like rocks.

40
Returning is the movement of the Way.
Gentleness is the method of the Way.
All things in the world come from being,
and being comes from non-being.

41
When the wise hear the Way, they practice it diligently.
When the mediocre hear of the Way, they doubt it.
When the foolish hear of the Way, they laugh out loud.
If it were not laughed at, it would not be the Way.

Therefore it is said,
"The enlightenment of the Way seems like dullness;
progression in the Way seem like regression;
the even path of the Way seems to go up and down."

Great power appears like a valley.
Great purity appears tarnished.
Great character appears insufficient.
Solid character appears weak.
True integrity appears changeable.
Great space has no corners.
Great ability takes time to mature.
Great music has the subtlest sound.
Great form has no shape.

The Way is hidden and indescribable.
Yet the Way alone is adept
at providing for all and bringing fulfillment.

42
The Way produced the One;
the One produced two;
two produced three;
and three produced all things.

All things have the receptivity of the female
and the activity of the male.
Through union with the life force they blend in harmony.

People hate being orphaned, lonely, and unworthy.
Yet kings and nobles call themselves such.
Often gain can be a loss, and loss can be a gain.
What others teach, I teach also:
"The violent die a violent death."
I shall make this primary in my teaching.

43
The softest things in the world overcome the hardest.
Non-being penetrates even where there is no space.
Through this I know the value of non-action.
Teaching without words and the value of non-action
are understood by few in the world.

44
Fame or your life, which do you love more?
Life or material wealth, which is more valuable?
Loss or gain, which is worse?
Therefore those who desire most spend most.
Those who hoard most lose most.
Those who are contented are not disappointed.
Those who know when to stop prevent danger.
Thus they can long endure.

45
The greatest perfection seems incomplete,
but its utility is never impaired.
The greatest fullness seems empty,
but its use cannot be exhausted.
What is most direct seems devious.
The greatest skill seems awkward.
The greatest eloquence seems like stuttering.

Movement overcomes cold.
Stillness overcomes heat.
The serene and calm are guides for all.

46
When the world lives in accord with the Way,
horses work on farms.
When the world does not live in accord with the Way,
the cavalry practices on battlefields.

The greatest temptation to crime is desire.
The greatest curse is discontent.
The greatest calamity is greed.
Whoever is content with contentment is always content.

47
One can know the world without going outside.
One can see the Way of heaven
without looking out the window.
The further one goes the less one knows.
Therefore the wise know without going about,
understand without seeing,
and accomplish without acting.

48
The pursuit of learning is to increase day by day.
The practice of the Way is to decrease day by day.
Less and less is done until one reaches non-action.
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.
The world is led by not interfering.
Those who interfere cannot lead the world.

49
The wise have no mind-set.
They regard the people's minds as their own.
They are good to people who are good.
They are also good to people who are not good.
This is the power of goodness.
They are honest to those who are honest.
They are also honest to those who are dishonest.
This is the power of honesty.
The wise live in the world peacefully and harmoniously.
The people share a common heart,
and the wise treat them as their own children.

50
Coming into life and going out at death,
three out of ten people live long;
three out of ten people die early;
and three out of ten people who could live long
die early, because they have chosen the path of death.

Why is this so?
Because they feed life too grossly.

It is said that those who preserve life
walk the earth without fearing tigers and wild buffalo,
and in battle they are not touched by weapons of war.
The wild buffalo's horns find nothing to gore;
the tiger's claws find nothing to tear;
and weapons' points find nothing to pierce.

Why is this so?
Because they have nothing for death to enter.

51
The Way produces all things.
Power nourishes them.
Matter gives them physical form.
Environment shapes their abilities.
Therefore all things respect the Way and honor power.
The Way is respected, and power is honored
without anyone's order and always naturally.

Therefore the Way produces all things,
and power nourishes them,
caring for them and developing them,
sheltering them and comforting them,
nurturing them and protecting them,
producing them but not possessing them,
helping them but not obligating them,
guiding them but not controlling them.
This is mystical power.

52
The beginning of the universe is the mother of all things.
Those who discover the mother understand the children.
Understanding the children and returning to the mother,
they live always free from harm.

Close the mouth, shut the doors,
and all of life is without strain.
Open the mouth, meddle with affairs,
and all of life is beyond help.

Seeing the small is insight;
to stay with the gentle is strength.
Use the Light, return to insight,
and thereby be preserved from harm.
This is practicing the eternal.

53
Those with even a scrap of sense
walk on the main way and fear only straying from the path.
The main way is smooth and easy,
but people like to be side-tracked.

While the courts are arrayed in splendor,
the fields are full of weeds,
and the granaries are empty.
Yet some wear embroidered clothes, carry sharp swords,
over-indulge themselves with food and drink,
and have more possessions than they can use.
They are leaders in robbery.
This is not the Way.

54
What is well established cannot be uprooted.
What is firmly held cannot slip away.
The power of sacrifice continues on
from generation to generation.

Cultivated in the person, power becomes real.
Cultivated in the family, power becomes abundant.
Cultivated in the community, power endures.
Cultivated in the nation, power flourishes.
Cultivated in the world, power becomes universal.

Therefore see the person as a person,
the family as a family, the community as a community,
the nation as a nation, and the world as universal.
How do I know that the world is like this?
By this.

55
Those filled with power are like new-born children.
Poisonous insects will not sting them;
ferocious beasts will not pounce upon them;
predatory birds will not swoop down on them.
Their bones are pliable, their muscles tender,
but their grip is firm.
They have never known the union of man and woman,
but the organ is fully formed,
meaning that the vital essence is strong.
They may cry all day without getting hoarse,
meaning that the harmony is perfect.
To know harmony is to be in accord with the eternal.
To know the eternal is to be enlightened.

To try to force life is ominous.
To force the vital essence with the mind is violence.
The prime is past, and decay follows,
meaning that it is contrary to the Way.
Whatever is contrary to the Way will soon perish.

56
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.
Close the mouth; shut the doors.
Smooth the sharpness; untie the tangles.
Dim the glare; calm the turmoil.
This is mystical unity.
Those achieving it are detached from friends and enemies,
from benefit and harm, from honor and disgrace.
Therefore they are the most valuable people in the world.

57
States are governed by justice.
Wars are waged by violations.
The world is mastered by nonintervention.
How do I know this? By this:
the more restrictions there are, the poorer the people;
the more sharp weapons, the more trouble in the state;
the more clever cunning, the more contrivances;
the more rules and regulations, the more thieves and robbers.

Therefore the wise say,
"Do not interfere, and people transform themselves.
Love peace, and people do what is right.
Do not intervene, and people prosper.
Have no desires, and people live simply."

58
When the government is relaxed, people are happy.
When the government is strict, people are anxious.
Good fortune leans on bad fortune;
bad fortune hides behind good fortune.
Who knows the results of process?
Is there no justice?
When the just become unjust, goodness becomes evil.
People have been deluded for a long time.
Therefore the wise are square but not cornered,
sharp but not cutting, straight but not strained,
brilliant but not dazzling.

59
In leading people and serving heaven
it is best to be frugal.
Being frugal is to be prepared from the start.
Being prepared from the start is to build up power.
By building up power nothing is impossible.
If nothing is impossible, then there are no limits.
Those without limits are capable of leading a country.
Those with maternal leadership can long endure.
This is to be deeply rooted in a firm foundation,
the way of long life and eternal vision.

60
Leading a large country is like cooking a small fish.
When the world is led in accord with the Way,
spirits lose their powers.
It is not that they lose their powers,
but that their powers no longer harm people.
Not only do the spirits not harm people,
but the wise also do not harm people.
Not harming each other, spiritual power grows.

61
A large country is like low land where rivers flow,
a place where everything comes together, the female of all.
The female overcomes the male with tranquillity.
Tranquillity is underneath.
A large country wins over a small country
by placing itself below the small country.
A small country wins over a large country
by placing itself below the large country.

Thus some win by placing themselves below,
and others win by being below.
A large country wants to protect people,
and a small country wants to join and serve.
Thus both get what they want.
It is best for the large country to place itself below.

62
The Way is sacred to all things.
It is treasure for the good and sanctuary for the bad.
Fine words can buy honor.
Good deeds can gain respect.
Though there be bad people, why reject them?

Therefore at the crowning of the emperor
or at the installation of the three ministers,
instead of sending gifts of jade and a team of four horses,
remain still and send the Way.

Why did the ancients prize this Way?
Did they not say, "Seek, and you will find;
let go, and you will be forgiven."
Therefore the Way is valued by the world.

63
Act without interfering.
Work without doing.
Taste the tasteless.
Large or small, many or few, repay injury with goodness.

Handle the difficult while it is still easy.
Handle the big while it is still small.
Difficult tasks begin with what is easy.
Great accomplishments begin with what is small.

Therefore the wise never strive for the great
and thus achieve greatness.
Rash promises inspire little trust.
Taking things too lightly results in much difficulty.
Thus the wise always confront difficulties
and therefore have no difficulty.

64
What stays still is easy to hold.
Without omens it is easy to plan.
The brittle is easy to shatter.
The minute is easy to scatter.
Handle things before they appear.
Organize things before there is confusion.
A tree as big as a person's embrace grows from a tiny shoot.
A tower nine stories high begins with a mound of earth.
A journey of a thousand miles begins under one's feet.

To act is to fail.
To grab is to lose.
Therefore the wise do not act and do not fail.
They do not grab and do not lose.
In handling things people usually fail
when they are about to succeed.
Be as careful at the end as at the beginning,
and there will be no failure.

Therefore the wise desire to have no desires.
They do not value rare treasures.
They learn what is unknown,
returning to what many have missed
so that all things may be natural without interference.

65
The ancients who ruled skillfully
did not try to enlighten people but kept them in the dark.
People are hard to lead when they are too clever.
Those who lead with cleverness rob the country.
Those who lead without cleverness bless the country.
Understanding these two is to know the eternal standard.
Knowing the eternal standard is mystical power.
Mystical power is deep and far-reaching,
leading all things to return to perfect harmony.

66
Great rivers and seas are lords of all mountain streams,
because they are good at staying below them.
Therefore they are lords of the streams.
Thus the wise in watching over the people
speak humbly from below the people,
and in leading the people get behind them.
In this way the wise watch over the people
but do not oppress them;
they lead the people but do not block them.
Thus everyone happily goes along without getting tired.
Because they do not compete,
the world cannot compete with them.

67
Everyone says the Way is great and beyond comparison.
Because it is great, it cannot be compared.
If it were compared, it already would have seemed small.

I have three treasures to be maintained and cherished:
the first is love;
the second is frugality;
the third is not pushing oneself ahead of others.

From love comes courage;
from frugality comes generosity;
from not pushing oneself ahead of others comes leadership.

Now courage without love, generosity without frugality,
and leadership by pushing oneself ahead of others are fatal.
For love wins all battles and is the strongest defense.
Heaven gives love to save and protect.

68
The best soldier is not violent.
The best fighter is not angry.
The best winner is not contentious.
The best employer is humble.
This is known as the power of not striving,
as ability in human relations,
and as being in accord with heaven.

69
The strategists say,
"Do not be the aggressor but the defender.
Do not advance an inch, but retreat a foot instead."
This is movement without moving,
stretching the arm without showing it,
confronting enemies with the idea there is no enemy,
holding in the hand no weapons.
No disaster is greater than underestimating the enemy.
Underestimating the enemy will destroy my treasures.
Thus when the battle is joined,
it is the kind who will win.

70
My ideas are easy to understand and easy to practice.
Yet no one understands them or practices them.
My ideas have a source; my actions have a master.
Because people do not understand this, they do not know me.
Since few know me, I am very precious.
Therefore the wise wear coarse clothes
and keep the jewel inside.

71
To know that you do not know is the best.
To think you know when you do not is a disease.
Recognizing this disease as a disease is to be free of it.
The wise are free of disease,
because they recognize the disease as a disease.
Therefore they are free of disease.

72
When people lack a sense of awe,
then something awful will happen.
Do not constrict people's living space.
Do not suppress their livelihoods.
If you do not harass them, they will not harass you.

Therefore the wise know themselves
but do not display themselves.
They love themselves but do not exalt themselves.
They let go of one and accept the other.

73
Those brave in killing will be killed.
Those brave in not killing will live.
Of these two, one is beneficial, and one is harmful.
Some are not favored by heaven. Who knows why?
Even the wise consider it a difficult question.

The Way of heaven does not strive; yet it wins easily.
It does not speak; yet it gets a good response.
It does not demand; yet all needs are met.
It is not anxious; yet it plans well.
The net of heaven is vast;
its meshes are wide, but nothing slips through.

74
If people are not afraid to die,
then why threaten them with death?
If people were afraid of death,
and lawbreakers could be caught and put to death,
who would dare to do so?
There is the Lord of Death who executes.
Trying to do his job
is like trying to cut wood for the Master Carpenter.
Those who try to cut wood for the Master Carpenter
rarely escape injuring their own hands.

75
People are hungry,
because rulers eat too much tax-grain.
That is why people are starving.

People are hard to govern,
because rulers interfere too much.
That is why they are hard to govern.

People do not care about death,
because rulers demand too much of life.
That is why they do not care about death.
Only those who do not interfere with living
are best at valuing life.

76
When people are born, they are tender and supple.
At death they are stiff and hard.
All things, like plants and trees,
are tender and pliant while alive.
At death they are dried and withered.
Therefore the stiff and hard are companions of death.
The tender and supple are companions of life.
Thus strong arms do not win.
A stiff tree will break.
The hard and strong will fall.
The tender and supple will rise.

77
The Way of heaven is like bending a bow.
The high is lowered; the low is raised.
The excessive is reduced; the deficient is increased.
The Way of heaven takes from those who have too much
and gives to those who do not have enough.

The human way is different.
It takes from those who do not have enough
and gives to those who have too much.

Who has more than enough to give to the world?
Only the person of the Way.
Therefore the wise act but do not rely on their own ability.
They accomplish the task but claim no credit.
They have no desire to seem superior.

78
Nothing in the world is softer and weaker than water.
Yet nothing is better at attacking the hard and strong.
There is no substitute for it.
The weak overcomes the strong; the soft overcomes the hard.
Everyone knows this, but no one puts it into practice.

Therefore the wise say,
"Those who bear the humiliation of the people
are able to minister to them.
Those who take upon themselves the sins of the society
are able to lead the world."
Words of truth seem paradoxical.

79
Compromising with great hatred surely leaves some hatred.
How can this be considered good?
Therefore the wise keep their part of an agreement
and do not blame the other party.
The good fulfill their obligations;
the bad exact obligations from others.
The Way of heaven is impartial.
It always stays with the good.

80
In a small country with few people
machines that can work ten or a hundred times faster
are not needed.
People who care about death do not travel far.
Even if there are ships and carriages, no one takes them.
Even if there are armor and weapons, no one displays them.
People return to knotted rope for records.
Food is tasty; clothes are beautiful;
home is comfortable; customs are delightful.
Though neighboring communities see each other
and hear each other's cocks crowing and dogs barking,
they may grow old and die without going there.

81
True words are not beautiful.
Beautiful words are not truthful.
The good do not argue.
Those who argue are not good.
Those who know are not scholarly.
The scholarly do not know.

The wise do not hoard.
The more they give to others, the more they have.
The Way of heaven benefits and does not harm.
The Way of the wise accomplishes without striving.

Note to:
50: The thirteen organs of life may refer to the nine openings in the body and the four limbs.

dying poorly

Tears save sick China mother from cremation alive

Fri Nov 18, 1:51 AM ET

A Chinese peasant woman who suffered a brain hemorrhage was left at the undertakers alive for cremation because her family could no longer afford hospital treatment, state media said on Friday.

She was only saved by the tears in her eyes.

The case is the latest in a series of tragedies illustrating China's stretched health care system and the inability of rural workers to meet spiraling medical costs.

You Guoying, a 47-year-old migrant worker from southwestern Sichuan province, was taken for cremation by her husband and children in Taizhou, eastern Zhejiang province, where she worked, the China Youth Daily said.

Fortunately for You, the undertaker realized she was still alive when he saw her move and tears in her eyes, the newspaper said.

"This is not only a tragedy for the family, but also for society," it quoted Xu Yinghe, a Taizhou official, as saying.

"The fundamental reason is the absence of a social welfare system."

You was taken back to hospital for further treatment with money donated by sympathetic citizens of prosperous Zhejiang, the newspaper said.

"Three days of treatment cost us more than 10,000 yuan," it quoted her daughter as saying, adding that was the sum of the family's life savings.

"If there had been another option, who would have the heart to send a member of their own family for cremation while there was still a hope of survival?"

The newspaper did not say if the family would face charges.

Vice Health Minister Zhu Qingsheng said last December that about half of all farmers could not afford medical treatment when sick.

A 42-year-old farmer too poor to afford treatment for lung cancer set off a home-made bomb aboard a bus in Fuzhou, capital of the southeastern province of Fujian, in August, killing himself and another passenger and wounding 30.

Also in August, a security guard hailed a hero for fighting off a purse snatcher jumped to his death from a hospital window in south Guangxi province because he couldn't afford the bills.

In the late 1970s, 94 percent of China's villagers were covered by cooperative medical schemes. But the collectives were disbanded during market reforms of the 1980s which ended cradle-to-grave welfare for the masses.

romeo

Another Welsh Bomber!

Quote:
Romeo guinea pig causes baby boom

Homes are needed for Sooty's.........Sooty had two nights of passion
numerous babies

A guinea pig called Sooty enjoyed a night of passion with 24 females after fooling his way into their cage in south Wales.

Sooty wooed the lady guinea pigs, one by one, and has now become the proud father of 42 baby guinea pigs from his two nights of passion.

His endeavours left staff at Little Friend's Farm, Hopkinstown, Pontypridd, amazed at his stamina.

Park owner Carol Feehan, 42, said: "I'm sure a lot of men will be looking at Sooty with envy.

"We knew that Sooty had gone missing and we looked for him everywhere but never thought of checking the pen where we keep the females.

"We did a head count and found 25 guinea pigs - Sooty was fast asleep in the corner.

"He was absolutely shattered - we put him back in his cage and he slept for two days."

Staff at the farm park tourist attraction thought Sooty might have hit the jackpot, but it was not until 10 weeks later that his night of passion started bearing fruit.

The farm park - which is closed for the winter - is now trying to find homes for Sooty's brood of babies.
http://news.BBC.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1048327.stm

link to global warming site

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/paleoclimate.htm

link to global warming site

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/paleoclimate.htm

sad facts related to previous discussion page

Have surface temperatures risen?

All the world's meteorological and climatic centres agree that global surface temperatures have risen by about 0.6ºC over the past 100 years.

Are the mountain glaciers melting?

The US National Snow and Ice Data Center has collated all the available small mountain glacier mass-balance data. Their findings show that, not only are these glaciers melting, but the rate of melting is accelerating. The NSIDC FAQ file comments "Since the early twentieth century, with few exceptions, glaciers around the world have been retreating at unprecedented rates".

Is the Arctic warming?

The changes in Arctic temperature are a magnified version of global changes, and the Arctic is currently warming at a faster rate than the global average.
...
The US Polar Science Center provides a detailed review of the warming, and shows that the winter warming trend since 1979 has been 2°C per decade. According to NASA, the relatively greater increase in winter temperatures is the predicted result of greenhouse gas accumulation.

Is Arctic ice melting?

Currently, satellite data show that Arctic ice is decreasing at the rate 9% per decade. The cause of these changes is not known for certain. It is probably partly due to changes in surface temperature, but also partly due to changes in the North Atlantic Oscillation.


Is the permafrost thawing?

"In many areas of both interior Alaska and Siberia, permafrost has warmed to within one degree Celsius of thawing". The warming of the permafrost may add to the greenhouse effect, as microbial activity increases and releases CO2...

Are the Oceans warming?

On the whole, they show a similar trend to that of global land surface temperatures. The oceans are also warming at depth....

These data show that heat is entering the ocean from the surface and spreading downwards. The pattern of warming is remarkably similar to predictions from climate models, suggesting that the cause of the warming is primarily greenhouse gases.

Are the corals dying?

Around the world, corals are bleaching (dying), according to a US government report. This is caused by a combination of an increase in sea surface temperatures of '0.5 °C a decade...

Is the rise in sea level normal?

The American Geophysical Union reviewed the data and concluded that "There is a convincing body of evidence that the sea level rise value of the last 100+ years has not pertained to the last 2 millennia".

Is the North Atlantic Oscillation behaving normally?

The NAO has been stuck in the positive phase for the past 30 years, and its current unusual activity is thought to be partly responsible for the melting Arctic ice pack (see above). There is good evidence that the current state of the NAO is a result of climate change...

"In recent years ... the NAO has been in a period of unprecedented activity. Its flips are bigger...

A report at the American Geophysical Union meeting in December 2001 confirmed that the trend was predicted by climate models - "It is consistent with most climate models' response to greenhouse gases", and suggested that increased warming will further enhance the effect.

Are precipitation patterns changing?

...percentage of Earth's land area stricken by serious drought more than doubled from the 1970s to the early 2000s (News Release). This occurred because increased temperatures increased the amount of evaporation.

Is wildlife being affected?

A statistical analysis of wildlife behavioural patterns has shown that they are being affected by global warming.

How does the current temperature compare with the past 1000 years?

...all these reconstructions agree that the global mean temperatures have declined gradually over the past 1000 years, before increasing rapidly more recently. In the northern hemisphere, there seems to have been a more pronounced warm period early in the millennium and cool period in the latter part of the millennium (the 'Medieval Warm Period' and 'Little Ice Age', respectively). These do not appear to have been global events and instead are likely to reflect changes in the North Atlantic Oscillation and linked to changes in solar activity.

Before the onset of the industrial revolution, and the resultant increase in greenhouse gases, global temperature changes are thought to be largely a result of changes in solar activity, volcanic activity, and deforestation (which caused a gradual cooling, especially in the last few hundred years), overlaid onto a background of internal climate 'noise'.

How has temperature and CO2 changed since the last ice age?

For the past ten thousand years, the earth's temperature and atmospheric CO2 has been relatively stable – although temperatures have varied over a range of 4ºC (although some of this variation is probably an artefact due to inevitable measurement errors). The causes of these fluctuations are not known with certainty, but are likely to be due to combinations of variation in solar activity and periodic changes in ocean currents.

The near-vertical red line at the far left marks the rise in atmospheric CO2 since the start of the industrial revolution.

Has a sudden rise in greenhouse gases ever caused climate change?

The complicated nature of past climate has lead some people to suggest that changing levels of greenhouse gases have only a small effect on temperature, especially when compared with other causes of temperature change. To test whether this is so, it is important to know whether a rapid increase in greenhouse gases, such as is now occurring, can actually cause significant climate change. Two events in the past suggest that this is, indeed, the case.

....

Late Palaeocene Thermal Maximum (LPTM, 55 million years ago)

Scientists have long known that there was a short, but dramatic period of warming at the end of the Palaeocene era. This is now believed to have resulted from several massive releases of methane from the sea floor, probably as a result of continental drift, but possibly as a result of volcanic activity. For more information, see Earth 's ancient heat wave gives a taste of things to come, this NASA story and the paper by Bains et al, Science 1999. The changes in sea surface temperatures fit well with predictions from climate models, according to research published in 2003. Although there are several similarities to today's warming, one major difference is the timescale: the release of methane took place over a period of several thousand years. There was no mass extinction, probably because plants had sufficient time to 'migrate' northwards to more hospitable climates.

Is there a natural greenhouse effect?
Yes... Most climate scientists think that, over the next century, mankind's emissions of greenhouse gases will increase the greenhouse effect by 5-15%, causing a warming of 1.8-5.4ºC.

Is water vapour the most important greenhouse gas?

The degree to which water vapour will amplify the effects of increases in other greenhouse gases is a crucial issue, but one that is currently far from resolved. Most climate models show that doubling the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere will increase temperatures by 1.1ºC, and that water vapour feedback will increase this to 1.8ºC (further amplification comes as snow and ice is melted, thereby reducing albedo).

Are greenhouse gases increasing?

At the end of the last ice age, the concentration of CO2 increased by around 100 ppm (parts per million) over around 8,000 years, or around 1.25 ppm per century. Since the start of the industrial revolution, the rate of increase has accelerated markedly: since 1860, the concentration of CO2 has increased by around 80 ppm, just over 50 ppm per century. The rate of CO2 accumulation has continued to increase, and it currently stands at around 150 ppm/century – over 200 times faster than the background rate for the past 15,000 years.

Is the Earth absorbing more radiation than it emits?

The analysis of the spectrum of radiation emitted from the earth shows that those frequencies which are predicted to be absorbed by greenhouse gases really are being absorbed.

Is the recent warming caused by changes in solar radiation?

It is clear that there has been no recent rise in solar activity that could explain the recent rise in temperature.
...

These reconstructions of solar activity have allowed scientists to investigate the relative impact of solar activity and greenhouse gases on current climate change. Several studies have investigated the relationship between changes in solar activity, volcanoes and temperatures over the past 1000 years and have concluded that, although changes in solar activity can explain much of the temperature changes, there is a 'residual' unexplained temperature increase in the 20th century.

...
"While the natural (solar and volcanic) forcings appear to be important factors governing the natural variations of temperatures in past centuries, only human greenhouse gas forcing alone ... can statistically explain the unusual warmth of the past few decades". A similar analysis by Crowley et al concludes that there is "a very large late 20th century warming that closely agrees with the response predicted from greenhouse gas forcing.”

.... Similarly, two recent studies of ocean temperatures have found that the observed increase is best explained by the effect of greenhouse gases.

Are climate models accurate? TOP

... even by 1998 they were able to simulate the main features of our climate, including, according to a pamphlet from the World Meteorological Association, 'the seasonal cycle of temperature, the formation and decay of the major monsoons, the seasonal shift of the major rain belts and storm tracks, the average daily temperature cycle, and the variations in outgoing radiation at high elevations in the atmosphere as measured by satellites.
.....

Nevertheless, there is still a great deal of uncertainty in predicting future climate.

Although there is plenty of room for error, it is important to realise that the effect of any errors is unknown. That is, it could be that warming is less severe than predicted. However, and just as likely, the warming could be more severe than predicted.

Will increased plant growth absorb the excess CO2?

... the natural world is already absorbing more than it emits, and predictions of climate change are based on the assumption that this effect will continue. Unfortunately, there are several problems.
Firstly, it's not enough. Data from Mauna Loa show that carbon dioxide levels have steadily increased throughout the century. Studies have shown that the ability of trees to soak up excess carbon is limited by the availability of other nutrients, as discussed in this article from National Geographic.
Secondly, there's more to greenhouse gas than CO2, as this link shows. Methane, a very important greenhouse gas, has doubled in concentration since the start of the industrial age.
Thirdly, we are actively reducing biomass by cutting down forests and draining marshland – deforestation in the 1980s was responsible for around 1.6 to 1.8 GtC emissions, according a report from the Edinburgh Centre for Carbon Management. In the 1990s, changing land use meant that deforestation has been balanced by reforestation of disused farmland, and there has been a net absorption of 1.4 billion tonnes. However, as these new forests mature, it is predicted that the balance will shift once again to a net loss of CO2 to the atmosphere.
Fourthly, although forests contain more CO2 than grassland, they are darker. This means that they absorb more heat. Scientists from the USA's Lawrence Livermore Laboratories report that deforestation likely played an important part in the global cooling that took part over the last millennium.
Finally, and most importantly, climate change is likely to have important effects on the carbon cycle. For example, as the oceans warm they will release CO2, and as the permafrost thaws it will start to decay, releasing large amounts of CO2. Peat marshes, too, are likely to release increasing amounts of CO2 as they warm (see this news report). Although the exact effects of these changes are hard to calculate, the current estimate from the HADCM3 model is that the net effect will be to increase global by a further 3ºC over the next 100 years – making the total increase up to 8ºC.

page fourteen

bob - From The New York Times Quote:

Climate Signals
Published: November 7, 2005
President Bush has long argued that a nationwide program of mandatory controls on carbon dioxide and other global warming gases would saddle the country with crippling electricity costs. He may be surprised to learn that his own Environmental Protection Agency no longer believes that to be the case.

In the course of a study comparing costs and benefits of various clean air bills rattling around Capitol Hill (including Mr. Bush's Clear Skies program), the E.P.A. found that under a measure sponsored by Senator Thomas Carper, a Delaware Democrat, the cost to electric utilities of controlling carbon dioxide would be only $1 per ton, imposing little burden on consumers and business.

To be sure, Mr. Carper's is the least aggressive and least expensive of the bills requiring mandatory controls. It applies only to power plants, which account for about one-third of carbon dioxide emissions, and would not regulate emissions from cars and others sources.

Still, that measly $1-per-ton figure should embarrass the Bush people who've been warning that controls will bring economic ruin (Clear Skies regulates other pollutants but not carbon dioxide), while providing encouragement to those in Congress who believe that action on warming is long overdue.

Not that there's any shortage of incentives. A recent series in The Times provided fresh evidence that there is already so much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that the Arctic, where the sea ice has been steadily disappearing, may have passed "the point of no return." But the series also said there's still time to avert catastrophic consequences, like the melting of the Greenland ice cap.

Meanwhile, Mr. Bush's staunch and patient friend, Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain, has once again - this time in The Observer - appealed to the president to join in a global effort to limit greenhouse gases. Without American participation, Mr. Blair suggests, there's little hope of securing the cooperation of the Chinese, who are building coal-fired power plants at a rapid clip and whose future emissions could overwhelm Western efforts to get a grip on the problem.

Add in the fact that 2005 is almost certain to be the hottest year on record (continuing a 25-year trend of rising global temperatures); add also what Mr. Blair calls "vicious climate disasters," including stronger hurricanes, and the stage would seem to be set for serious debate.

bob - and in the admittedly highly remote off chance that anyone is left wondering which side won this round consider...

Some members of Congress appeared to be shocked to learn that oil companies would have record-setting profits this year, some $100 billion, collectively, for Exxon Mobil, BP Amoco, Royal Dutch Shell and ChevronTexaco. Soon they began thinking aloud about a windfall profit tax, with Senator Judd Gregg, Republican of New Hampshire, saying that the oil companies had "taken advantage of the trust of the American people."

A windfall tax is a good idea. But justifying it by demonizing the oil companies only perpetuates Americans' false belief that high energy prices are primarily the fault of Big (Bad) Oil. They're mainly due to supply and demand, so consumers' insatiable oil thirst plays a major role. The oil companies are indeed reaping profits from hurricanes and other events, and a strong case can be made for taxing those windfalls. But outsized consumer demand made those external events so profitable.

To be effective, a windfall tax should be part of a strategy to reduce oil dependence. Such a strategy would depend on reducing consumption.

Top executives of the world's biggest oil companies will appear today at a Senate hearing. Lawmakers would be wise to stress why a windfall tax is both fair and necessary. In brief, for consumers, oil price increases are like a tax with no public benefit. Americans have deep national interests in reducing oil demand, but oil companies have little incentive to invest their windfall profits in ways that would advance those interests.

Properly structured, a windfall tax would generate money for mass transit and alternative fuels, for helping carmakers move from sport utility vehicles to energy-efficient models, and for other ways to cut demand. It would bring in so much money - more than $24 billion this year, if it was set at 50 percent of the profits on oil sales above $40 a barrel in 2005 - that some could also be used to help consumers cope with the current high prices, including providing a few billion dollars for home heating aid for the poor.

But using all of the revenue to provide consumer rebates - as some lawmakers propose - would be counterproductive because that would foster only more consumption.

The windfall tax would also make it easier for Congress to take the more difficult but necessary step of raising the federal gasoline tax.
Money from the windfall tax could pay for the initial investments encouraging conservation. Then, as higher gasoline taxes took effect, some consumers would have alternatives to long commutes in gas guzzlers. When the windfall taxes dried up, the gasoline tax money would be available to continue investments in an oil-independent future.

OutofChaos - It’s a shame some folks think discussion is all about winning and losing, they completely miss the value of learning. Then again, falsely claiming a win when you have already lost is a safe, albeit counterfeit, refuge when you can’t produce any valid counter arguments.

Since the misguided and inept NY Times is flashed about with such bravado and naivety, I will post a reasoned and intelligent response from Christopher Helman commenting in Forbes. I will, however, adhere to the rules of the forum and post only brief excerpts of his completely insightful and educated prose, as opposed to the voluminous and vacuous meanderings of the NY Times.

Christopher Helman, Commentary, Forbes

Quote:
In a sense, America should be happy to see those profits; they imply that America's energy supply system is efficient. If Big Oil wasn't making money in a time of record energy prices, then we'd really have a problem.


Quote:
It's not as if Big Oil is squandering its cash. In the third quarter, Exxon Mobil (nyse: XOM - news - people ) invested $4.4 billion in capital and exploration projects--to ensure that it can maintain a steady supply of fuel to the world. The company also spent $6.8 billion on dividends and share buybacks--in effect giving profits back to shareholders so they can reinvest it wherever they see fit.


Quote:
A windfall profits tax on the oil industry would be a disaster to America's long-term energy health. It would give companies big incentive to simply reduce investment in gas-guzzling America and instead focus on getting oil and gas to the fast growing populations of China and India. And what happens if and when the oil patch goes bust? Will taxpayers then subsidize Chevron's (nyse: CVX - news - people ) losses?

It's simply un-American to penalize a person or a company for acting on a bright idea. It's no secret that oil and gas are commodities vital to the continued operation of modern society. Oil companies just had the foresight to go out and look for the stuff.


Quote:
Therein lies the perfect hedge for gas-guzzling Americans: Start investing in big oil stocks now, then over the next couple decades use the gains to outfit your roof with solar panels or make the payments on a hybrid car.

bob - Certainly a debate is about "learning" but it is possible that at some point you have "learned" so much that there are only two options left: 1) Admit that at the outset you were wrong, or 2) Give every appearance of being someone who can't admit they were wrong even when the truth is staring them and everyone else right in the face. Oil companies made one hundred billion dollars in profits last year. That's a one and twelve zeros, or USD100, 000, 000, 000, a hard number to really comprehend. I explained it to my wife this way - imagine a pile of hundreds totalling one million dollars. Now, imagine one hundred thousand of those piles. Wow that's a lot of money you have to admit.

CO2 levels are rising. Global warming is happening. There is a link between the two. New York Times columnists are neither misguided nor inept. Companies investing a portion of their profits (in this case a small portion) back into their own operations to ensure future profits is standard procedure. The oil patch won't go bust because they already know where a lot of the oil is and they know how much is there. Oil company executives are not being dragged through the muck on this one for nothing.

The following I admit is a valid argument:

Quote:
A windfall profits tax on the oil industry would be a disaster to America's long-term energy health. It would give companies big incentive to simply reduce investment in gas-guzzling America and instead focus on getting oil and gas to the fast growing populations of China and India.


There is, I suspect, no limit to big oil's disdain for this planet we call home, and a good percentage of consumers the world over aren't much different. There is also however a growing voice for change, that voice will grow louder and more persistant, and it will be saying that the two cars in the garage suburban Wallmart model of development was wrong , is wrong, and for the future is absolutely wrong.
boozle the New York Times?

Comrade Stalin - What can you say about a trusted professional who makes stuff up and publishes it as fact?

Last week, New York Times reporter Jayson Blair joined Janet Cooke, formerly of the Washington Post, the New Republic's Stephen Glass, the Boston Globe's Patricia Smith, and Jay Forman in Slate as journalists who got caught embellishing, exaggerating, and outright lying in print. The will to fabricate cuts across disciplines, with academics and scientists inventing data, too.


Embattled reporter Miller quits the Times

After Miller decided to testify, a Times article depicted her as a rogue reporter; and a staff memo from Times Executive Editor Bill Keller said Miller appeared to have misled editors about her “entanglement” with Libby.


bob - Thanks Comrade. I especially liked this part: Quote: She (Miller) spent 85 days in jail over the summer for refusing to testify about her conversations with a confidential source. But after her release, Miller was criticized harshly and publicly by Times editors and writers for her actions in the CIA leak case and for her reporting during the run-up to the Iraq war, later discredited, indicating that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction.


Reading those links reaffirmed my belief that the New York Times is commited to journalistic integrity and in the event of the occasional slip up we can rest assured that they will come under intense scrutiny from other news organizations.

Thanks again.

page thirteen

bob - Muzha Man wrote:
Cut bob some slack.


Thanks Muzha man but honestly I'd rather that OOC and fred both continue with their ravings. I enjoy seeing how hysterical they become when they know they are losing an argument. This thread has seen very good arguements made for the reality of global warming and man's role in that process. Any day of the week we can step outside and see the traffic jams. We can read about the number of human beings killed or maimed in auto accidents each year, smell the exhaust as the cars roll by. When the transit systems break down due to typhoons those of us living in Taipei can see what life in the city would be like without mass transit systems. What some of us are missing apparently is the ability to imagine how much more livable the city will be when that system is improved. How much more livable most cities would be with improved transit and greater disincentives to operating motor vehicles.

Fred criticizes me for loving nature and calls this my religion as if this were some kind of insult. What I wonder is how does a person get so disconnected from the earth that sustains him.

bob - Quote OCC:
When your economics, your history, and your rebuttals are all that bad, it's really quite simple to doubt your science.

Quote fred smith:
Quote:
What makes you think that it is science with people like Bob?


It is a combination of science and values. I value the natural world and science makes it quite clear that over consumption is destroying it.

Quote fred smith: The true word here should be religion. We are being asked, no we are being forced to accept a lot of this on faith.


No, we are being forced to adopt the suburban K-mart two cars in the garage model of development. That's the real religion. Or at least the alter we are conned into flocking towards.

Quote fred smith: This is not a new phenomenon. Like the pasturalists of the 18th century, the Luddites of the 19th and now the environmentalits, we have people who are foaming at the mouth about change and modernity and loss of innocence for which nasty consumers without the appropriate "sensitivities" simply do not understand.


Talk about frothing at the mouth. I just want to enjoy the convenience and stimulation of city life without being forced to endure the hazards and annoyances of so many automobiles.

Quote fred smith: These immoral people with no sense of taste merely have higher consumption power which they waste on plastic!!! items at KMart! Have they no taste! and they live in tract housing! and go to shopping malls! and want food fast and cheap! and that is reprehensible and repulsive. These people should be sent with their credit cards to concentration camps and gassed or to re-education camps in the countryside until they learn. Get it? Until they "learn."


Stand back everybody. The froth is really flying now!

Quote fred smith: Of course, the historical record of these kinds of prejudices and the disasters they led to is something that is not "learned" and that is what continually disappoints me about the human condition.


bob - A little economics from The New York Times....

Quote:
Big Rise in Profit Puts Oil Giants on Defensive
...Exxon Mobil, the world's largest oil company, said yesterday that its third-quarter net income jumped 75 percent, to $9.92 billion. Its profit in the first nine months of this year - $25.42 billion - already equals its full-year earnings for 2004. This year's sales, which topped $100 billion in the last quarter, are expected to exceed those of Wal-Mart.

Another oil giant, Royal Dutch Shell, reported a 68 percent jump in profits yesterday, to $9.03 billion. Chevron is expected to post a profit of more than $4 billion today.

....While the idea that the Bush administration was considering imposing a windfall profits tax was knocked down yesterday by officials, longstanding resentments against Big Oil are resurfacing and could end up imposing some additional burdens on the industry.

The sense that government should step in to curb the phenomenal wealth and power often enjoyed by oil companies goes back to Exxon Mobil's corporate ancestor from the late 19th century, the Rockefeller oil trust known as Standard Oil.

Today, Republicans and Democrats alike, aware of the politically sensitive issue of high energy prices, are putting increasing pressure on the oil and gas industry to return some of its profits. The ideas include forcing the industry to invest in more refining capacity, to increase inventories to cushion energy shocks, or to provide money directly to the government program that helps low-income people pay heating bills.

....

Senator Bill Frist, the Republican leader, said yesterday that executives of major oil companies will be summoned to Capitol Hill to testify about high energy prices. Some of Mr. Frist's language harked back to the 1970's and early 1980's when cries of price gouging at gasoline pumps were common.

"If there are those who abuse the free enterprise system to advantage themselves and their businesses at the expense of all Americans," he said, "they ought to be exposed, and they ought to be ashamed."


fred smith - BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Can you hear the killer bees coming? haha

Richardm - I challenge you to find where scientists warned about dire consequences from the killer bees. From what I remember they said they will spread as far as Texas, Oklahoma, and California, but not much farther and they have.
It was the press who love to exaggerate things. And movies. And movies of the week.
Perhaps the killer bees would be a lot worse now if scientists had not alerted people to the potential problems.
Perhaps global warming would be a lot worse now if scientists had not alerted people to the potential problems.

bob - Richard m wrote:
I challenge you to find where scientists warned about dire consequences from the killer bees.


Actually richard we just dodged the bullet on that one thanks to the Osaka Protocol on Killer Bees. Of course the US refused to sign on due to fears of heavy losses in it's honey business, but thanks to the efforts of the world community, especially our neighbours to the south, a catastrophe was averted.

Fred smith wrote - Ravings? Seems we are the only two to actually link to anything relevant regarding this matter. You on the other hand keep linking to sites showing high profits at oil companies. Hence my point earlier that this is a bit of a religion with you people. Corporate profits are not contributing to global warming. Got that?

Quote bob: I enjoy seeing how hysterical they become when they know they are losing an argument.


Who would like to vote on this that either of us is hysterical? or losing an argument for that matter? Alternatively, link to a few sites and prove that the points that we have made are not correct or relevant.

Quote bob: This thread has seen very good arguements made for the reality of global warming and man's role in that process.


Such as? Should we take your statement on faith? I think rather that just as many if not more arguments have been made here why global warming may not be caused by man.

Quote bob: Any day of the week we can step outside and see the traffic jams. We can read about the number of human beings killed or maimed in auto accidents each year, smell the exhaust as the cars roll by. When the transit systems break down due to typhoons those of us living in Taipei can see what life in the city would be like without mass transit systems. What some of us are missing apparently is the ability to imagine how much more livable the city will be when that system is improved. How much more livable most cities would be with improved transit and greater disincentives to operating motor vehicles.


Ah the pasturalist approach. The evil city. Evil cars. Evil consumption, BUT have you proved that any of this is relevant to global warming? And also what do you have to say about the substantially reduced emissions per vehicle over the years. I believe that one pre-1974 car pollutes at rates of about 80 times that of today's cars. Sorry, I do not have the exact link handy, but regardless of the actual numbers, the difference is substantial.

Quote bob:
Fred criticizes me for loving nature and calls this my religion as if this were some kind of insult. What I wonder is how does a person get so disconnected from the earth that sustains him.


I have never criticized you for Loving Nature. I have criticized you for letting your beliefs and your religious fervor regarding the subject cloud your ability to think rationally about it. Disconnected? When I was growing up my father hand several farms in central Minnesota and he was repeatedly recognized for his conservation efforts. I know all about ecology perhaps to far greater degree than you do. I have never said we should not fight pollution or environmental contamination. What I am saying is that I do not believe Kyoto is the best solution or even a good solution. I believe that we can and will deal with these problems but not in the hysterically mandated ways that would be required under Kyoto and for what benefit? Staving off global warming AT BEST by six years in the next 100?

Given the evidence to the contrary that seems to suggest that these cycles are in fact more natural than you seem to imply, given the possibility that increased solar activity may be partially responsible and given the fact that I do not see any convincing evidence that suggests that man can do anything meaningful about stopping this anyway, I believe that the Kyoto Treaty is a failed approach. Stamping your foot and demanding that we pay attention or else must hate nature is not going to win anyone over to your cause. AND your knee-jerk hatred of "profit-making" corporations is perhaps yet another plank in the symptomatic paranoia that seems to characterize your views on the environment. Sorry, but BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ the killer bees are coming! The Killer Bees are coming. What? You missed all the headlines warning of their arrival 20 years ago? This was not a subject that was played up in the media as a major danger? Gosh. Could have fooled me but then perhaps it was because I was young and impressionable back then. haha

spook - "I cannot imagine any condition which would cause a ship to founder. I cannot conceive of any vital disaster happening to this vessel. Modern shipbuilding has gone beyond that . . ."
-- Captain Edward "Fred" Smith, RMS Titanic

fred smith -
Let's examine the facts.

1. Global warming is occurring. The results are not all bad.

2. There are questions as to what is causing global warming. The possibility that man is responsible is hotly debated.

3. There is doubt that any action can avert this.

4. The Kyoto Treaty envisions great economic dislocation and costs for what? Staving off global warming by six years in the next 100 and that is the optimum result.

5. Exaggerations have been made among environmentalists which is why scientists admit that overstating the case has resulted in skepticism.

6. Antarctic peninsula is warmer, mainland is colder.

7. Greenland is warmer, ice melting off, but warmer temperatures resulting in greater precipitation so ice cap actually getting thicker.

8. Ice sheet over north pole melting but since ice suspended in water, no change to sea levels.

spook - Aye, aye, captain. Damn the global warming and full speed ahead.

bob - Fred you basically just keep rehashing the same tired bullshit regardless of whether it was successfully countered in earlier posts and you then go on to ascribe attributes to people that they don't possess. I may be single minded in my belief that high gasoline taxes are a good thing because they limit to some extent the number of cars on the road and encourage more sustainable living arrangements. They also keep a certain amount of money out of the hands of governments that support terrorism and out of the pockets of companies like Shell who spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year convincing of us that they are looking after the environment but who are mostly selling a lot of oil. And I may also believe that the money from gas tax should pay for improvements in the transit system creating a carrot and stick approach; but at no point did I say that global warming was absolutely 100% the result of man's actions. I'll say it sure as hell looks that way to lot of informed people though. Neither did I say that the Kyoto agreement was a perfect document. In fact I feel that it let developing countries off the hook and that is perhaps a serious mistake.

bob - fred smith wrote: Ravings? Seems we are the only two to actually link to anything relevant regarding this matter. You on the other hand keep linking to sites showing high profits at oil companies. Hence my point earlier that this is a bit of a religion with you people. Corporate profits are not contributing to global warming. Got that?


"Keep linking?" I listed one site. And yes I realize that corporate profits themselves are not contributing to global warming. It is the sale and subsequent use of oil upon which those profits depend that is contributing to global warming. What is the use of that distinction exactly?

Quote fred smith: Who would like to vote on this that either of us is hysterical? or losing an argument for that matter? Alternatively, link to a few sites and prove that the points that we have made are not correct or relevant.


I don't feel that you have made any points at all. Earlier in this thread though there was an interesting link to some good "science" on global warming. You should read it.

Quote fred smith: Ah the pasturalist approach. The evil city. Evil cars. Evil consumption, BUT have you proved that any of this is relevant to global warming? And also what do you have to say about the substantially reduced emissions per vehicle over the years. I believe that one pre-1974 car pollutes at rates of about 80 times that of today's cars. Sorry, I do not have the exact link handy, but regardless of the actual numbers, the difference is substantial.


If you have travelled a lot you are aware how much of people's living space is occupied by cars, you know how much of the earth has been paved under and the problems this creates with soil errosion and flooding. You know how much time people spend sitting in traffic jams. If all of that is OK with you then I guess there is nothing more for us to talk about. Yes improved fuel effeciency is a godsend. We have high oil prices and presure from environmentalists to thank for that.

Quote fred smith: Stamping your foot and demanding that we pay attention or else must hate nature is not going to win anyone over to your cause. AND your knee-jerk hatred of "profit-making" corporations is perhaps yet another plank in the symptomatic paranoia that seems to characterize your views on the environment.


Paranoia? You have got to be kidding. I see huge problems: urban sprawl, global warming, loss of habitat, flooding, soil errosion, air pollution, terrorism.... And I see one solution that would to some extent help to solve all of these things - increased gas taxes. If gasoline is kept expensive people will look for alternative living arrangements that don't leave such a scar on the earth. Less money would go to Saudia Arabia and to companies that could give a shit about anything but profits. Improved mass transit frees up land for green space, cuts down on air pollution, reduces the amount of land devoted to roads, and leaves the consumer with MORE money to spend on other things besides his car.
There is not an ounce of paranoia in any of this.

bob - fred smith wrote:
1. Global warming is occurring. The results are not all bad.


Coral bleaching, melting permafrost, retreating glaciers (inevitably leading to a upsets in river cycles and subsequently to floods and droughts) larger and more frequent El Nino phenomenon, larger and more frequent hurricanes, various and sundry upsets in weather patterns that will have a negative impact on most of the life forms existing today.

fred smith wrote: There are questions as to what is causing global warming. The possibility that man is responsible is hotly debated.


Not according to the US National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration Paleoclimatology Program and the UK Climatic Research Institute. The following quotes and the ones above are from their website.
Quote:
Are greenhouse gases increasing?

At the end of the last ice age, the concentration of CO2 increased by around 100 ppm (parts per million) over around 8,000 years, or around 1.25 ppm per century. Since the start of the industrial revolution, the rate of increase has accelerated markedly: since 1860, the concentration of CO2 has increased by around 80 ppm, just over 50 ppm per century. The rate of CO2 accumulation has continued to increase, and it currently stands at around 150 ppm/century – over 200 times faster than the background rate for the past 15,000 years.
.

Quote:
"While the natural (solar and volcanic) forcings appear to be important factors governing the natural variations of temperatures in past centuries, only human greenhouse gas forcing alone ... can statistically explain the unusual warmth of the past few decades". A similar analysis by Crowley et al concludes that there is "a very large late 20th century warming that closely agrees with the response predicted from greenhouse gas forcing.”


fred smith wrote: 3. There is doubt that any action can avert this.


The CO2 and methane that we pump into the atmosphere is causing this thing but you are waiting for evidence to prove that continuing to pump it at the same or increasing rates is a bad idea?

fred smith wrote: 4. The Kyoto Treaty envisions great economic dislocation and costs for what? Staving off global warming by six years in the next 100 and that is the optimum result


I'll admit the Kyoto Treaty was far from being a perfect document.

fred smith wrote: 5. Exaggerations have been made among environmentalists which is why scientists admit that overstating the case has resulted in skepticism.


Extremists exagerated so now you won't listen to the scientists?

fred smith wrote: 6. Antarctic peninsula is warmer, mainland is colder.


Quote EPA:
Climate models in general suggest that Antarctica will take longer to warm than the Arctic, primarily because the Antarctic is surrounded by oceans, which tend to absorb excess heat. A detailed analysis has shown that the cooling of central Antarctica is probably a result of ozone depletion, which has affected a pattern of atmospheric circulation called the Southern Annular Mode. The Antarctic Ocean is warming faster than expected.


fred smith wrote :
7. Greenland is warmer, ice melting off, but warmer temperatures resulting in greater precipitation so ice cap actually getting thicker.


What you meant of course was that warmer temperatures are resulting in greater "snowfalls". What happens when it warms up a bit more and a lot of that snow turns to rain. Fairly realistic scenario wouldn't you think as the earth "is" warming up after all?

fred smith wrote: 8. Ice sheet over north pole melting but since ice suspended in water, no change to sea levels.


The melting ice sheets will contribute to a further warming off the worlds oceans. As they warm they will expand and the oceans will rise.

Quote EPA: But there might be a less dramatic reason than polar ice melting for the higher ocean level -- the higher temperature of the water. Water is most dense at 4 degrees Celsius. Above and below this temperature, the density of water decreases (the same weight of water occupies a bigger space). So as the overall temperature of the water increases it naturally expands a little bit making the oceans rise.

In 1995 the International Panel on Climate Change issued a report which contained various projections of the sea level change by the year 2100. They estimate that the sea will rise 50 centimeters (20 inches) with the lowest estimates at 15 centimeters (6 inches) and the highest at 95 centimeters (37 inches). The rise will come from thermal expansion of the ocean and from melting glaciers and ice sheets. Twenty inches is no small amount -- it could have a big effect on coastal cities, especially during storms.

page twelve

OOC - Beats the hell out of raising gas taxes.

OutofChaos wrote: Government bureaucracies, which are all that are created by increased taxes, don’t produce solutions. Free enterprise, innovative entrepreneurs, and encouraged individuals produce the technological change we need to address society’s problems.



I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Computer networking and information technology in general and the Internet in particular were direct results of DARPA. The U.S. part of the Human Genome Project is government run. Much of the cutting edge science such as biotech and nanotech are being devolped by U.S. govt. funded scientists and researchers. The trend seems to be that the U.S. govt. invests heavily in R&D because private companies aren't willing to take the risk. Then once the technology is developed it's handed off for free.

OutofChaos - Unlike Al Gore, I was there when the Internet came alive. It wasn’t the U.S. Government it was the encouraged individuals working in the universities across the country that built and grew the Internet. It wasn’t the U.S. Government that built the Web either. It was the U.S. Government that passed the federal mandate last week requiring all universities to upgrade their networks to allow for online government wiretapping. All at a cost to the universities of an estimated $7 billion dollars!

Fox - Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

bob - In any case OCC the science already exists to re-direct oil and gas revenues away from oil companies and middle east despots and into mass transit projects. Sorry if this is too clear and simple for you.

OutofChaos - bob, the only thing clear and simple, and unrefuted, is:

Quote:
So the premise is: If we raise taxes on gasoline, the oil company won’t get the money. If we raise taxes on gasoline the Arabs won’t get the money. If we raise taxes on gasoline WE get the money.

BLEEP! Wrong. Bad premise. I, and most others, am not buying this BIG LIE.

‘Big oil’ won’t cut their costs in the wake of higher taxes. The Arabs won’t charge less in the wake of higher taxes. All I get is much higher gasoline costs because the government is raising the price of gasoline.

The money is mine now; I don’t have to PAY me. I certainly don’t need you to charge me higher taxes to PAY me my money.

Your argument for higher gasoline taxes is ‘sound bite simple’ and fully flawed. That’s just one reason I don’t trust the ‘facts’ presented in the rest of your arguments.


When your economics, your history, and your rebuttals are all that bad, it's really quite simple to doubt your science.


fred smith - What makes you think that it is science with people like Bob? The true word here should be religion. We are being asked, no we are being forced to accept a lot of this on faith. This is not a new phenomenon. Like the pasturalists of the 18th century, the Luddites of the 19th and now the environmentalits, we have people who are foaming at the mouth about change and modernity and loss of innocence for which nasty consumers without the appropriate "sensitivities" simply do not understand. These immoral people with no sense of taste merely have higher consumption power which they waste on plastic!!! items at KMart! Have they no taste! and they live in tract housing! and go to shopping malls! and want food fast and cheap! and that is reprehensible and repulsive. These people should be sent with their credit cards to concentration camps and gassed or to re-education camps in the countryside until they learn. Get it? Until they "learn." Of course, the historical record of these kinds of prejudices and the disasters they led to is something that is not "learned" and that is what continually disappoints me about the human condition.

Mucha Man - Of course, there is the counterpart of people ignoring obvious threats, not preparing for them appropriately, and then suffering the consequences. Sometimes the apologists for the status quo really are out to lunch. Fred, are you part of the Orwells or the Chamberlains of our times?

BTW, I advocate more technology and better technology to make the world a cleaner, safer place? I'm certainly not a luddite. Don't take the easy way out and discredit a movement by isolating one extreme member.

In any case, even if environmentalism is a religion with some people, so what? You've taken plenty on faith yourself when it comes to supporting mid-east reforms. Cut bob some slack. Or do you feel that only the causes you believe in are worthy of respect?

Elegua - The religion argument cuts both ways. Conservatives who ignore negative externalities and refuse to believe that markets might not perform efficiently in all cases and ignore the lessons of the "commons" are right in the same boat as the carpet chewing and foaming-at-the-mouth environmentalists.